Episode 17: Careers
Jason and Tracy discuss having U.S. jobs in Portugal, and how Tracy is joining Jason on the dark side and becoming a tax preparer.
Alright, welcome to another episode of As the Dinosons Turn. And so this time around we want to talk I guess about kind of a grab bag of different things, work and what our schedule has been like and what it will be like now that school is starting. And I don't know, I guess you've got some news, you're you're doing some studying, aren't you, to join me on the dark side of accounting.
SPEAKER_01So when Jason became an enrolled agent, immediately he kept saying, You should do this, you should do this. And I've said to many of you, as you know, I am not like passionate about taxes or accounting, not in the ways that Jason is. However, I do love puzzles and problem solving. Um and I'm learning that that's more of what um taxes at the least um entails is puzzles and problem solving.
SPEAKER_00Taxes are not math. I know the boys'll Jack in particular, he'll say, Oh, dad's good at math because he does taxes, but yeah, that's really not the case. It's really more solving the puzzle of the um the oddities of American tax law, and how does it all fit together, and what are the rules, and what are the exceptions to the rules, and what are the rules relating to the exceptions and and keeping all of that stuff straight. You've just started studying, and I know the very first day you were studying, you were like, what is going on here?
SPEAKER_01Okay, it wasn't even studying. So, yes, I am working to become an enrolled agent so that I can be part of the Dinoson Tax and Accounting firm in a contributive way, more than just let me help with schedule and answer emails. Um, in large part because we've talked about a lot of different ideas of the things that that we want to be able to do, and I miss elements of teaching and having these ethical conversations and all of those pieces. Um, and I I also want to be of service and help during tax season. And one of the things that I see a lot is the expat issue of how do I do my US taxes and my Portuguese taxes, and then we're trying to solve that out for ourselves as well. And so um I think there's some great opportunities there. I've already done the my work is my passion. Um, and I don't want to do my work is my passion. Um, I want to do my work supports my passions. Um, and I there's something really appealing to me. I haven't told him this, but it's something really appealing to me to just work tax season and then let him do his thing the rest of the year, and be like that hardcore intensive time period of you know, you know, January through May, June, really working hard and then being like, oh, I can take summer off, you know, and work on those pieces. See that this is the way it works in my head. I know that that's not really how it'll work, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Now I have to go back and reevaluate because I already told people that last tax season was the last tax season of the long, long hours and that we were going to make use of extensions, and people would have to get used to having their tax return done after April 15th. So now I have to like blow all that up.
SPEAKER_01Well, but here's the thing. I think that if it had been just Jason doing those taxes, then yes, it would absolutely have to be more of a sane way. But now that it would be two of us and working on it and me really understanding how that works, I'm starting with the individual taxation piece of it. And there are laws and rules that I'm like, what the you know, WTF are these people thinking? And then there are things where I'll read a question, I'm like, oh well, that can't be ethical, and I just choose one because that's how this evaluates. You take all of these quizzes ahead of time and they're like, study on these things, right? Never mind the fact that I'm not I'm like, where's the reading? Where's all this other stuff first? No, they want you to see what you might already know. Well, my thought was I know Bubkus, but actually I knew about 40% of it, so I was pretty proud of myself. That's that's something. Um, but then you move on to other things and it goes down from there.
SPEAKER_00So um but this helps solve my problem that's been in existence for years, that's fed the the burnout. It's not the only thing that's fed my burnout, but I've always said I need another brain on staff. Yeah. I mean, administrative help is nice, but that's actually not the the biggest need. It's that this stuff is so complicated, even for seemingly average person tax returns, you really need another brain to look at things from all the different angles. And pre-COVID, I had always said, well, where am I gonna come up with forty or fifty thousand dollars to to pay at a licensed professional? And now, you know, it's more like seventy or eighty thousand dollars to pay to a licensed professional. Um the answer is someone like me is never going to find that amount of money to pay another brain.
SPEAKER_01Or so he thinks. No, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_00Well, okay.
SPEAKER_01He is going to have to pay this brain. I am not doing this out of the goodness of my heart. Let's make sure that that's clear.
SPEAKER_00Well, I guess that's that's a good point, isn't it? That it is. You probably should be. I should be getting see, this is the You know, we talk about the problems in our fields. You know, you've talked about higher education issues some, and I think you'll talk more about that as we go. I think you'll be doing some writing on that.
SPEAKER_01I will be, yeah. Now I the when the kids go back to school, that's another thing I can do, is actually blog posts.
SPEAKER_00But go ahead. Well, and on my side, um what was I saying? I completely have blanked out on what I was even saying.
SPEAKER_01You're going to have to pay me. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I'll have to pay you. But you know, when you look at national averages, it's like the average tax pro makes like $75,000 or $80,000 a year, and I just roll my eyes at that because I don't pay myself that much.
SPEAKER_01That is true. Um, I agree with that. However, yes, we we will make this clear. And now I I'm really glad that I also have podcast and video proof.
SPEAKER_00You will and must pay me. I can edit this out though, because I'm the editor of the audio.
SPEAKER_01I will watch what I will know.
SPEAKER_00What uh what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_01The thing is, is that yes, he needs another brain and he needs more assistance, but I also would like to earn money. Um, and I think that that's another piece of it. I want to earn some money, and then I can also earn money doing some tutoring and other things, but at the same time, you know, um I know that having two brains and two people also means we can grow the tax side of the business.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that is, you know, to get to a point where we both can be getting paid what we need to be paid requires scaling the business. And so by having two, it means we should theoretically be able to do more work and bring in more money, which then will result in more pay. Because where I was stuck before is preparing a hundred and fifty tax returns every year isn't really sustainable for one person over the long haul. You gotta grow that to something more beyond that.
SPEAKER_01Um, this is also him trying to be like, so don't expect a whole heck of a lot of pay at the beginning.
SPEAKER_00I didn't say that.
SPEAKER_01No, but this look on his face, see? And he's like laughing and turning red. No, I have to say, like, I'm not expecting a lot of pay. Um, I, you know, I know that the the business is paying for me to become an enrolled agent and to take the exams, and that's part of the investment. But yes, I will be earning money. Let's make that clear. Um, but we also then I can help, you know, and I think that we now have a dog with us because they're barking at the neighborhood dogs. Hi, Stanley, stop. So um, but it gives us the opportunity to actually grow the part of the business and serve needs in areas that we would like. It also helps us communicate and connect with, you know, um people that we already love and work with, right? Um but to expand that even into the expat community here, um, doing some traveling around, partnering with a Portuguese CPA firm to help with the Portugal part of things so that it's a responsible and cohesive communication and knowledge and understanding of what's going on. Um, because we've found that a lot of people don't, at least in our area, don't understand what we're trying to do. Um, but it it gives a way for me to actually help and support and also to, you know, he'll he'll talk about, oh, I need to do this and I need to do that. And like, well, I can't help you with that um because I don't know taxes or I don't know this issue. Um so it gives me an additional way in to contribute where I would like to contribute, and then also it will feed my pottery addiction. And um my interior design and architectural design degree that I'm working on, too. So, you know, it's a win-win.
SPEAKER_00You have lots of irons in the fire.
SPEAKER_01I do, but that's not a surprise. You know, if people who know me, and it's also because I finally get to explore the passions that I've always wanted to explore. So I think that's important.
SPEAKER_00So you'll find in the tax world, for as much as I might kind of gripe about it sometimes, it's really all about helping people, and when you can stay in that kind of positive frame of mind, it is complicated, it's more complicated than it should be, but you know, people need help with this stuff, and I think that's the best way to look at this as we're trying to set things up to help people. Um, and that's a nice segue, though. Yeah, we talked about your pottery and your interior design stuff. So you've been doing pottery classes Tuesdays and Thursdays. You've been working on some projects here too on your own time. So that's one of those feed your soul kind of things.
SPEAKER_01Uh it definitely is. I'm trying to figure out how to do my feeding my soul during the academic year when there's also picking up kids and all of that, and having one car and having to go to Braga for it. Um, so I think that that's something that I'm trying to figure out still, and that will just depend on boys' schedule. Um, I know the next class I'm gonna sign up for.
unknownHa ha!
SPEAKER_01I know that already. I have two more classes in the sequence. I'm working on painting the pieces that I've made, and so I'll show you those pieces when we get to that point, um, and I get them back from being baked and fired and made all pretty. Um, but I have to say that I'm loving it. I'm having a great time doing it. Um, and I can imagine not doing it now, which is fantastic. Uh, it also feeds the pastry part of me that likes to create things that are pretty. Um, I miss baking a lot. Um, and I'm taking a class on how to get your kitchen certified commercially in Portugal. So it's just trying to figure out a lot of those pieces. Um, but it's, you know, again, like I want time to explore my hobbies in the direction. I want to help with business. I just don't want it to be all-consuming, and I don't want to be in charge of everything. So I'm gonna be an employee.
SPEAKER_00I guess that's all on me then.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's all you, babe.
SPEAKER_00I forgot you're taking an interior design course too, from what a school in Spain, right?
SPEAKER_01It's actually interior architectural design. So it's more than just let's make things pretty. Um, it's redoing spaces to make sure that they work for the purposes that they are, like the people are trying to actually make them do. So, like, how do we actually make a functional office with ability to record and do sound and all of those things? What are the things that need to be moved? It's also keeping in flow and light and all of those other pieces. So I'm excited about it. I'm enjoying it. But it is not easy. While the school is based in Spain and in Portugal, um, all of the content is in Portuguese, and so I'm reading a lot of content and taking notes, and um, that has been a process. So I'm glad that I have a higher level of Portuguese than I did. Um, but it's a full year um in trying to work on those pieces. So it's a year, but it's like what they say, about 300 hours of work. That's totally doable in a year as a second language, I think. I know, he loves how he's laughing at me. He's like, that's like not like that's like nothing.
SPEAKER_00So you're you're taking pottery classes, you're doing this architecture interior design class, you're studying to be an EA. Well is that it or is there other are you taking other things too?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm doing that. I'm also doing the classes through um work espacio in Porto to learn about certifying our kitchen to be a commercial space. Um, so I'll do some more baking.
SPEAKER_00What about Portuguese classes? You're through what B1?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, and so there is another class. I was just trying to decide if I wanted to spend money that way or not. I love taking Portuguese classes, and I think I probably should. Um, but you know, I need somebody to pay me.
SPEAKER_00So I can earn money. Maybe we'll maybe we'll get through some of these other things you have going on, and then when those are over, then move on to doing the Portuguese classes.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think in reality it's for me trying to figure out how much additional support and how many other Portuguese classes everybody else in the family needs. Because I could, you're right. I mean, when you've said before that you could see me getting a PhD in Portuguese because I love doing it, I I really could take Portuguese classes all the way through a PhD level and be happy. Um I mean, I probably will make no money at it, but you know, heck. At the same time, I know that everybody else really, I need to support everybody else in getting through this next year, too. Like you need to get to through that A2 level into B level and feeling confident in everyday interactions. The boys really need to get through those levels and supports and seeing what other classes and things they might need. I'm prioritizing my uh monthly educational budget to pottery and clay. So that's where that is. I don't have a whole lot of other things in the fire other than writing. I am determined that I'm gonna complete nanoRimo this year. I've never completed NanoRimo, which is writing a 50,000-word novel in the month of November, but I'm going to this year. I am determined to at least get to that 50,000-word mark, if not more. So I have a lot of things, but um the bigger question is what about you? What are you also supposedly working on? I mean, you're working, but what are you also doing to feed your soul? Because we've had this conversation a lot, because that's also part of the reason why I feel like burnout is such a real thing. You have to feed your soul and be creative in different ways. So, how are you supposed to be, or did you how are you planning and what are you doing to support your creativity? Well, called out on camera.
SPEAKER_00You're calling me out on camera a lot today in this podcast, actually.
SPEAKER_01I'm actually in a good mood. I'm giving you a hard time. But what are you doing for you?
SPEAKER_00Uh, writing, theoretically at least, writing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The hard part for me is the ideas are in my head, but actually putting them out in writing is the hard part. But that's not just on writing, that's just kind of life for me. Is it's easy to think about things in my head, but then to either say those things out loud or to even just write them down is the difficult part. And I think some of it is giving yourself permission to do something that may not be, quote, work related or that may not bring in money, that it's okay to do something you enjoy doing. Um the other thing is more of a psychological block of once you put it out there, if the idea is just in your head that it's safe, no one can criticize it or tell you that it's wrong. But if you put it out there, people might think it's wrong or it might not be perfect, and and so it's just easier to keep the powder dry by keeping the idea in your head.
SPEAKER_01Which is what we're also trying to avoid and have been working on. No, I think that here's the other piece. We've had this conversation too, that that is a lot of it. I mean, I think that's also part of the reason why I never really completed NanoRimo is because I was afraid to put things down on paper. But you've been reading a lot about Stephen, a lot of Stephen King on writing. You've been reading his works, you've got some inspiration and things going, and it is just the fact of writing. You just need to write and you know, let the rest take care of itself. We do a lot of projecting, right? A lot of those things. But I think that's part of it.
SPEAKER_00Um there's also it's like I don't know if it's living vicariously through other people, but it's more like consuming what other people do, whether it's a book or music or anything, a business even. It's like, wow, look at that person doing that. But then for yourself, for myself to actually take that step and do it myself, is hard. It's easier to sit back and read a book that someone else wrote, or listen to music that someone else wrote. I'm not a singer and I don't play any instruments, so maybe that's not a great example because I'll never write a song, but you know, you listen to music or you watch a movie and you see someone doing something, or you go to a store, a coffee shop or something, and you see someone running that store, and it's like, well, look at them, they did that. Um I guess I don't know quite what I'm trying to say there. It's just easier to consume what other people have done and be like, wow, that's neat that they did that, than to actually take the action yourself of doing something yourself that people could look at and say, Wow, that's neat.
SPEAKER_01This coming from the man who moved us to Portugal from the United States, which is a lot of what other people are so he has this in him. I'm just trying to get him to make sure that he's feeding his soul in real ways, too.
SPEAKER_00Well, we have done something that a lot of people say, Wow, that's neat. I wish I could do that. And and my response is always, well, just do it, which is really ironic.
SPEAKER_01No, I think that learning to take our own advice is something that that we both are trying to do. I mean, for those of you who know, like all the years of advising and me telling people, find what's makes your heart happy, work on all these things, like helping people through all those things, and yet I'm giving all this advice and saying these things, and I need it, I needed it too. I need it too.
SPEAKER_00Well, that is true. I can give advice to other people about lots of things and it makes sense. And then it's like, well, what am I doing for me? But you know, I guess maybe we should give credit to ourselves for doing what we did moving here to Portugal.
SPEAKER_01I think that Jason needs to give himself credit for a lot of things, and I think this is just one of them. Um, but the fact that he really is writing and he has some great ideas, um, that he's working on pieces of it. Um, he's reached what he says is a block, but I think it's just because now it's gonna be more work. Um But we've also said that the time that we put into consuming other things and kind of being in that kind of death scroll or you know, is something that we really wish that we were not doing even as much as we're doing now. That that making that shift from consuming other people's great ideas and then using that time to spark for ourselves is something that we're in the process of learning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If there are times you've wanted to throw your phone and your tablet completely out, I have I've said launch them into the sun several times over the last few months. Yeah, yeah. It's just amazing how much time gets just lost staring at your phone each day.
SPEAKER_01Well, and then it's also like how connected do you want to be and how connected should you be when you run your own business and all of those pieces. And so we're working on that. We have more balance than we had before, and so it's a work in progress. So I've got all kinds of things in the fire that I actually feel like for me this is a sabbatical um and a step and a phase into the new thing, but then learning how to do all of these things and maintain that balance while there's consistent work is a challenge, and so that's what we're gonna be working on.
SPEAKER_00Yep. All right. Well, who knew that this podcast we said 10 minutes and it's been like 20 plus minutes, but we were gonna just talk about taxes and you becoming an EA, and now we've talked about burnout again. But that's a that's a recurring theme, isn't it? We're gonna be talking about burnout forever, probably.
SPEAKER_01I think that we're talking about not really necessarily burnout, we're talking about pursuing your passions and finding balance. And what does that look like for us in this moment and what have what have we been able to do? And me being who I am, it's not a surprise to anyone who knows me that I would have six or seven things that I would be doing. Um, and a lot of that is my personality. It is probably that I have like an ADHD, probably, um, that I can only focus on one thing at a time for so long. Um, it's me doing things I've always wanted to do that I finally like have found a way or given myself permission to do, and finding flow in those things has been really powerful. Um, and then you um also have found flow in writing. You've just disappeared into it. Um, and you find flow in all kinds of other ways that feed your soul that I guess is considered work, like your radio work and those things. But we're trying to make flow more of a purposeful part of our day.
SPEAKER_00All right, well we'll keep you posted. Catch us again next time on another episode of As the Dinosons Turn.
SPEAKER_01Never a dull moment.