Language Learning Struggles and Victories

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to As the Dinoson's Turn, where we chronicle the adventures of the Dinoson family, a seemingly ordinary family from Iowa, who decided, hey, you only live once. So let's move to Portugal. And now your hosts, Jason and Tracy Dinason.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Alright, welcome to another episode of As the Dinason's Turn. And today we want to talk about language learning and where we're all. I can't even say it with a straight face, where we're all at with learning the language. We had an episode about that probably 18 months ago. So it's good to have another one here on where we're at. So Alright, why don't you go first, sir? Uh it's a struggle. Um I've given up on Duolingo. I had a very long, like 700 and some day streak, and I just gave it up. And haven't really used Duolingo in since before Christmas. I just felt like it wasn't really helping me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

And you know, you get bothered every day by Duolingo to keep your streak alive, but why is Duolingo not not a good go-to for people who are thinking of moving to Portugal? I think you have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

It may be fine for other languages, but for Portugal, well, number one, it's Brazilian Portuguese, which is close to Portugal Portuguese, but not always the same. That's actually not my biggest problem with Duolingo, though. It's it's that there's no real teaching going on. It's just a bunch of lessons and a bunch of words, and you click buttons, and it's either right or it's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

You don't have to questions or those things. Who are you gonna ask questions to?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

There's not any real explanation of you know, why is this this way, or this is how things are done with the language. It's just here's this lesson, and hopefully you get it right, and if you don't, you just keep doing it till you do, which I mean that's kind of part of learning, but it's more it's not really associating anything. I don't think, at least not in my mind, it's not associating anything, it's just a bunch of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

So I think that okay, first of all, we have insider scoop that the duolingual Portuguese is gonna be redone, um, that it's not their best course. We already knew that. Um, and it's not as far along as some of the other courses, and it desperately needs redone. But I would say that yes, in part, and and I know that when I say Spanish, the Spanish program, use it, it's fine. Yes, there are 22 countries that speak Spanish. Um, but between Brazilian Portuguese and Portugal Portuguese, there are so many differences and nuances, particularly in pronunciation, that it makes it sound like a completely different language. Even if it's not, like it's you're using a lot of the same words, but the pronunciation is so distinct that it does sound like they're speaking something else. And so you have to be able to adjust your ear, and that is not always easy. Um I know in in I know very well if I'm speaking for somebody now from the north of Portugal, or if they're from Lisbon, or they're from the Algarve, or if they're Brazilian. I I mean you can easily tell, um, just based on the way they speak. And so I think that that's something to kind of keep in mind that the pronunciation sometimes is drastically different. Um, but you like taking classes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Well, so I think you should give our listeners and viewers, not everybody knows your background on why you have picked up Portuguese. You even have the it's weird, the accent. You have the accent down the the kind of mumble. That's that's how I hear things when people talk, say, oh my language. It's like, what what are you saying?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

So I mean, I have a PhD in Spanish, language and literature, um, specializing in Spain. Um, I was a you know uh professor for a very long time, taught Spanish as a second language, um, understand, I could understand Portuguese, but never really speak it. It was not like I love this. I had the opportunity to take Portuguese classes during my graduate programs, and I was like, that's okay. I'm fine. I'm gonna do a summer of Latin, and it was like the best summer of my life. So I'm a total language learning nerd. Um, and so yes, like I would say that Portuguese is not the easiest language to learn. Is it more difficult than some of the other romance languages? Yes. Um, is it as difficult as something like Japanese? No. Um, I think that's it's all on a spectrum, right? Um, but yeah, I'd say you're still at that A1 level and you haven't had a lot of time to invest in learning, right? So you took an A1 class and you did some individual coaching and that was helpful, but you need to get back into it. Um I'm definitely at the B1, B2 level of Portuguese language. My language has gotten infinitely better. I don't speak as much of a combination of Spanish and Portuguese. And it's gotten so much better because of working every day, like because I work with kids that are asking me like, oh, teacher, teacher, how do you say? And then they'll just tell me stories too in Portuguese and like really fast. And so you have to just kind of keep up. And there are sometimes I'll go, what? No, what? No, I I don't, I have no idea what you're saying, and then they'll say it again. I'm like, oh, you mean this? They're like, Yes, teacher, but they even they give me a hard time, and when I pronounce something correctly, one of them will stop and say, Teacher, you said it right, because I sound like a Spaniard who's trying to say Portugal half the time.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I've witnessed you speaking Spanish. People think that you are from Barcelona, right? That's your Seville outside of Spain. That's where you you lived in Seville for a number of years, and that's where your heart is, but people think you're from Barcelona. I remember an old man on the Camino de Santiago. For our listeners, older men like to talk to Tracy and like tell her their life story. So we're walking through some area in Spain, and this old guy just starts talking to her, and uh she was talking back to him, and he thought he that she was from Barcelona because that was the accent, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So funny, no. Um, and to be clear, even old men in Portugal like to tell me their life story. There's just something about if I sit down, somebody has to talk to me sometimes. I'm one of those people. And usually it's older men that are sitting around waiting on their wives because of machismo culture.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Um, but we were at the tax office, weren't we? The tax office something to change our address. And we're just sitting there, this old guy just starts talking to Tracy in Portuguese about he was in one of the Portuguese wars in the 60s, and then he came back here, but then he went to Ireland and was a farmer. And did you know that Ireland exports many food products to Portugal, or maybe it's the other way around, and now he's moved back here, and and he's just trying to make ends meet. And that that's a common thing with us when we go out. People the older men like to talk to Tracy, and uh that that was true in Mexico too. I remember the the cab driver when we landed at the airport in Marida. And uh yeah, that that just happens as the dinosaurs turn.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

I am one of those people that I make friends everywhere. Well, we'll just call it that way. Like either somebody telling me their story, or you know, I'm always, you know, saying thank you. I hope you have a wonderful day, or you know, like those things making sure I can say that in the language of where we are, um, so that you know, people know to be ultra respectful and polite and all of those things. Um, so I make some pretty good friends different places and we have some great conversations. So, um, and that's very helpful. So I'd say that if you are not one of the people who you just sit down and then somebody has to tell you their life story, like I am one of those people on a plane, too. If somebody sits down next to me, the next thing I know somebody's talking to me to the whole time. And so um I do have a book or I have headphones or those types of things if I'm just not in it, or the flight's gonna be like, I don't know, 12 hours. Um, so I think that that is definitely a thing. And my former students can attest to walking up and I'm sitting in a plaza waiting for them, and somebody's sitting down and telling me all kinds of things. But it does seem to be older generations. I've been on buses before, and an older woman, you know, rode the entire bus line to show me around Seville and have conversations with me and all of that kind of stuff. Just she knew that I was moving that, I was just moved there. And so I think that having those conversations with people is important.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Um, but I like to do that too, but I could only do it in English. So that's the that's the hard part is that uh you know, if you speak English, I can sit and have a cup of coffee and talk to you about anything. But well, and and how did I do when we went to the cell phone store to try upgrading my phone? I did try talking to the guy in Portuguese. He seemed to understand, sort of, I'm sure I mangled quite badly what I was trying to say, but he seemed to understand, and then you were able to jump in and rescue me because that's what happens a lot, is it's like, okay, we got things started, and then suddenly it's like and it's like then it's like okay, I understood one word that they said. I don't even know how many words they were saying because it's all just kind of like they feel that way when they explosion. They feel the same way when you speak English. Anyway, how do you think I did?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

I think you did great. You walked in, you we were looking at the phones, you explained what you wanted to do, you wanted to trade in your phone, upgrade it so that you could, you know, you wanted to upgrade your phone to the newest model, and then we had options, and we were like, yes, we know what those things are. Um, the guy was funny. He wanted, he didn't like our pronunciation with numbers, but I think he also wants to practice his English. It was really funny. But they also always ask, are you from England? Like, no, we're from America. He's like, oh, because where we are in the north, um, sometimes we'll run into people, like we will run into different places and they'll assume that you're British or you know, something like that, just because they were the first English speakers to move over to this part of Portugal. And now there's definitely a growing American community. Um, sometimes they'll say, Oh, I met an American just the other day, you know. I mean, so um, but you did a great job. Um, I think pronunciation is definitely something we'll be working on, but I think the other piece of it is it's hard to know when is the best time for you to do all of those things, right? So you could take an early morning class um, or you can take the intensive course in July, but that's like the whole month of July. Like, and it's like three or four hours a day, five days a week, and you're like, I don't know if I want to do that. So I think it's you know, fix up one half doesn't another. Can you take a class? Absolutely. Should you take one? Yes, you should. Should we get back into it? Absolutely, and we can arrange your schedule, you know, so it can be fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Our uh our GPS speaks Portugal Portuguese, right? On the Ways does app. It speaks Portuguese and it even has that accent that um you you have it down, I'll probably never have it, but it's but you understand per seva, I do understand when the GPS speaks. I can understand it depends on the speed of the speaker, and sometimes people barely even open their mouths when they talk, and it just is like rapid fire mumbling, is how it comes across to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

I I do think that there is a different enunciation and movement of mouth when it comes to Portuguese in Portugal. Um, it very much reminds me of what I would call the Cuban mushmouth, um, which is everything's here, right? And so the lips don't move as much, and so you can't actually use that um to your advantage, and so I think that that is definitely part of it. Um I don't know. I'd say that the kids are doing really well. Tyler is a solid, probably A1 moving into A2 level. Um, same thing with Jack, he's definitely doing well. They're so impressed with how much they've improved. And particularly in their reading and writing skills, their listening skills are really solid. They're working on their speaking now, and even doing formal presentations, parts of group work, all of those things, they can totally do it. And so that's really good. Um, and even, you know, um they will watch something on Netflix and and things like that, and we'll look and see, does it have Portuguese subtitles? And if it does, then we'll put it on. And I love that um, you know, the lingua no materna teacher, Jack's teacher in particular, um, said to Jackson, You you should watch the news because it's a great way to learn, like practice your Portuguese, which would be true if you could understand everybody who is from Lisbon. That's not always the case, in my opinion. Um, I can definitely understand the northern accent. It for me it's much clearer. Um, but I am so excited because next week, starting March 9th, we are going to start watching Married at First Sight Portugal. And that's gonna be a great way to practice Portuguese. So he's gonna watch that with me. We watch food cooking shows all the time. And so I think that there are things that we can do to increase our Portuguese here at home more. Um, my students and even their teachers will ask, Do you speak Portuguese at home? And we're like, no, not really. Um, and the reason for that is because language fatigue is real. Like after I've been out all day long using Portuguese with my students, or they've been at school from eight in the morning until 6.15 at night, and then Jack gets on a bus at 6:30 and gets home at almost seven, um, just because of getting off the bus and walking, and it could be raining or whatever. So 6:45, 7 o'clock, they're tired. Like they can't take anymore. They can't take any more Portuguese. So I think that we've made an actual upper like an effort to expose everybody to Portuguese during this carnival break time that we've been on, and we'll have to continue doing that during breaks because otherwise they're gonna re they're not gonna keep their progress up. And I think that's important. Um, so I think that we're all doing pretty well in the set of of what we've actually been working on, but it's not easy to do. There are some continuing education programs in the United States where you can take online classes um for Portuguese. But um, and here you can take online classes absolutely in small groups, and they're for different people. I mean, when I took my classes online, it was fantastic, but it was also, you know, a good three or four hours a week that were dedicated to your classes, two hours a night, usually. Um, and but I got to meet people from all over the world that had immigrated here and get to know them and what they were doing, and and that that is amazing because you get to meet people from all over the world that have moved here, but that are also all over Portugal, you know, and so that's been that was fun too. So pluses and minuses, you'll just have to decide what your next learning opportunity will be. Mr. A1 novice. You're like definitely on the novice low, move into novice mid. Um, if we're gonna use US things. The the boys are definitely at that advanced, novice advanced, and I'm in that solid intermediate.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Novice Mid might be giving a little more credit.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

I think you're a novice low. I love you, but I think you're still a novice low. But you know, I think that we've actually seen that you um you've retained what you or a lot of you retained a lot of what you learned to begin with. And so that I think is just as important. Um and it was harder for you to learn, you know, and I think that that's okay. I hadn't leg up.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah. I'm in, you know, I'm a little older and uh have never had to learn a foreign language before.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

You did French, but it was like you were taking like you were eating your broccoli, remember?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

The options were French. I think on our one of our earlier podcasts I said French or German. That was not true. It's French or Spanish. They had gotten rid of German by the time it got to that point in high school for me. So it was French or Spanish, and everyone was taking Spanish. So I was being contrarian and was like, well, I'll take French, and it's probably easier anyway than Spanish. And I was never too concerned about whether I got an A or not. I didn't want to get C's. See, I in my defense, I do not say C's get degrees. That's not I don't want to get a couple of things.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Well, hell D is for degree, honey. Not in some days.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Um well, see, if you get a C, then people hassle you. Your parents hassle you, teachers tell you how disappointed they are. But if you get A's, number one, that's a lot of work for not a corresponding trade-off, as far as you know, like 16-year-old me. I was like, what's the reward? Why would I work that hard to get an A? And then you people expect me to do that every time. I don't want to be put in that position. So it's like, I'll just do whatever I have to do to get a B. I'll just I'll just be there. I will be and get a B. And hopefully no one talks to me. Hopefully, I don't have to do anything. Hopefully, all that I need to do is just kind of muddle through it, and I'll get my B and I'll move on, and then I'm never gonna be in school ever again, is what I said. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Well, uh welcome to reality. Um, lots of school after that. Now needing to learn language, all of those pieces. You could still try and get a B, but whatever. It's just ironic that you actually married somebody who is as perfectionist and uptight when it comes to that type of achievement as I am, because an A- was enough to put me over the edge.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Well, what's funny is I am a perfectionist. You are I am a perfectionist, and I'm very competitive, but I have a different view of that. That it's like we're playing the long game here, and you know, short term okay, but what about long term? We're getting through this stupid stuff that again, 16 year old me, and sometimes Even somewhat older me. It's like we're gonna get through this stupid stuff. I had a countdown timer on my computer back in the 90s, and in fact, I kept track on a piece of paper too, counting down the days until high school graduation because I started that when I was like a sophomore in high school, like two plus years in advance, because finally no one can tell me what to do. I'll be able to do what I want. That's freedom day, is graduation day. Oh then I went to college and I had the same attitude. I just want to get B's, get that piece of paper, and I'm never doing this crap ever again. I don't really care about any of this. I don't really want to be here. Just let me muddle through, get the piece of paper, and then I'm gonna go work and be successful, and and I'm never going to go back to school ever again.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

I love school so much. Like I love it. I love taking classes, I love learning, I love everything about it, and so yes, we are opposite in a lot of these things. And but I think it's hysterical because you continue learning and you continue doing all kinds of things, and you continue on in education and all that after that.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

So I did go back to school, you did go back to school.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

A couple of like you did that, you started master programming.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

I've been in school several times since then.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

That's okay. I mean, when you're young, you think all kinds of things, but I I can understand, I think I see a little bit of our children in that attitude that you just put forth. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

But it's not so much as 21-year-old me, 21-year-old me would never have imagined being in Portugal and uh and uh having to learn Portuguese because I never I mean, yeah, I took French, but I never had to worry about I lived in a in a world where I could just kinda do whatever and fail upwards.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

So I've never had to wait when we talk about school, I think we'll have to talk about the idea of like the social promotion and all of those things. But I think that you're right. Now learning a language has a different purpose and a different realm. And so now it's learning it not just so that you can have a piece of paper, which we have to have when we apply for permanent residency or sit and citizenship eventually when we get to that point way down the road. But I think that the other thing is that you need to use it in your everyday life, and people here are ultra kind. And so if you say you're trying, they're willing to work with you, and then they want to do the same thing with their English, and so it's it's a good exchange. And you know, I even have deals with some people where I speak Portuguese and they speak English, and they practice and I practice, and and that's okay. And so I think that that's it's definitely gonna be a long-term thing, you know, and getting back in classes, I think, is your goal for this next year, so that you can, you know, make sure you have that time and that you continue that learning because so that you feel even more confident. Um, I loved that we walked into the Nosh today and you were like, I'm gonna do this, and you just went for it. It was fantastic. Because when we first moved here, everyone depended on me because as your mother would say, I speak the blah blah blah. This is what she would say about me speaking Spanish, right? Because I speak a language and it's close enough, and people understand me. A lot of that was dependent on me because of where we live. Not a lot of people didn't speak English, they want to learn English, but they haven't gotten to that point yet. And so I think that that's definitely part of the process, right? You did a good job, you're learning a lot more, you're taking control, and I am proud of you. Just like I'm infinitely impressed with what our children can do. I mean, it's crazy. I mean Jack's done entire presentations on all kinds of interesting technological things that I would have never done before, but also done them in Portuguese. And so the fact that he's doing his research and all of that stuff and doing it all in Portuguese, and he's not depending on writing all of his sentences in Google Translate in order to do that, and then just copying and pasting them or asking Chat GPT to do it, I'm impressed with because it's not gonna help him learn the language if he did that. So he's he's doing great. They both are. We're hanging in there. I wonder what two more years will bring. Maybe we'll even get to the point like we'll be able to do an entire podcast in Portuguese. Oh there you go, long-term goals, babe.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

I guess long-term goals a week, and sometime in a future episode we could talk about our business vision idea of an English language hub here in Portugal, where that's going to be starting very soon.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

And it starts starts coveraging things, coverage of things starting next week. Yeah, it's exciting. So lots of great things coming from us.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

This is what I mean when I say being focused on what really are we trying to win here. Winning is not, oh, I'm taking some stupid class over here, you know, when I'm 16 years old. And so I've gotta get it A. Why? That's not what the goal is. The goal is over here. We're focusing on winning over here and something over here that you have to do because you're never gonna convince me as well. It's like, well, whatever. Let's just do it. No, not only am I gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Not only am I gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

I'm living in a completely different world from you.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

You are, because I'm telling you, not only am I gonna do it, I'm gonna be the best at it. And if I'm not the best at it, I'm gonna get a complex about the fact that I'm not the best at it. And I need to make sure I have the best grade ever. Because not only am I going to do it, I am going to be like, I'm going to ace it. I'm gonna be like the rock star. So yeah, no. We're too different in that. And people who know us are gonna be laughing hysterically because I will tell you right now, hell to the now. I want, I want the gold star, I want the A, and I'm gonna do the best thing possible. You better believe it.

unknown 29:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

And I'm more like, you know, you can keep your gold star because we're working on this over here.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

I'm doing both at the same time. I want it all. So not surprising.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

It's not. That's kind of a neck nice segue to what our next episode will be, I guess, which will be on the subject of education. So join us again next time on As the Dinoson's Turn.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

You've been listening to As the Dinoson's Turn, a podcast presented by Dinoson Media Ventures. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and catch us again next time for another episode!