Season 2, Episode 5: Burnout Recovery
We were both horribly burned out before we moved to Portugal. Burnout, in fact, is really our "why" as to why we moved. We've talked about it before, and we talk about it again here.
Alright, welcome to another episode of As the Dinoson's Turn. And this time around, we wanted to revisit the subject of burnout, which we've talked about several times in the past. We wanted to talk about it again today. We're coming up on our one-year anniversary, and that'll be our next episode. But we wanted to talk about burnout again for like the third or fourth time, but it's it's our why, it's why we're here. So where where are you at on your burnout journey?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, it's not surprising that since we're in the middle of tax season and things are really picking up, that I found myself doing a lot of the same things I was doing in my career, which is I've got a to-do list, I know what needs to be done, I feel like I have to complete that entire list. And if I don't complete that entire list, then something goes wrong. And so, um, and I, you know, I'm going through therapy to help deal with all of this because I was like, why am I doing this to myself? Like I've created an impossible schedule for myself. There are things that need done, but I can't get them done every day. And I feel like we're doing a pretty darn good job, you know. But I don't know. Like, I'm I see myself creating some of those same patterns. So I'm working on that, and that has not been easy, especially when we like to have opposite work schedules. I mean, it's helpful when we want to use the program for that we use, but I like to get my stuff done in the morning because then in the afternoon I've got to go run get kids, or I've got pottery, or book club, which just started. And so I think that in doing better at that, I'm not working all hours. Um, but yeah, uh, I can see some of those same patterns popping up again. How about you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know that I've reverted to some of the ways that I was in America. Just and sometimes it's like, you know, we talk about work work-life balance, but a lot of times I think people forget about the work part when they talk about work-life balance. You know, you do have to work unless you're able to be retired and not work. But uh if you're not in that situation, which we're not, there's things that have to get done. And so you could talk about work-life balance, but you also have to do things to make sure you're making money. And but I think that one of the things that I've fallen back on is, well, it's busy right now because not only is it tax season, but I have a couple of other irons in the fire. But shall we get through May 1st and then it'll all be better? And that's the same thing that I said a lot in America, too, is like, we'll get through this date, and then it'll be better, we can readjust things, and we won't have to work so hard, because everything will be better. And then, you know, that never happened because it's just like there's another, there's just something else always that has to be done. And, you know, the money is never enough, even if you think it will be. It's not. And so then it's like, oh well, I guess I gotta roll my sleeves up and keep working.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I think that we also know that we got ourselves into a situation where we were working ourselves into the ground. And so even if we think it might get better, there are things that we can do daily to make sure that things actually happen. Like, I still take the time to have my morning cup of coffee and play my games and spend some time. Take I get to take the kids to school, you know. If they forget something or they need something, I take the time and go and drop it off with them, you know. Um, which is something I would have just been like, oh, sucks to suck, but you know, too bad. You know, but you know, today I brought Jack a bottle of water because he forgot it and he really wanted some, and I was like, okay, I can do that because he forgot money too. So yeah. Um, but at the same time, I think that we're making I'm making time for additional things. I don't know about you, but um, I've got a book club, which is great. So we're getting that started. We have our we had our first meeting, we got everything set up, we chose our books, so that's gonna be a lot of fun. Um, I still adore and love pottery more than anything. And when I've had to miss, it's been really hard. So I'm glad I get to keep doing that and have a space that I can do that. I'm gonna buy more clay because I got some projects to make for people who are coming to visit. Make sure they have some fun things to take back. Um, but you know, we've actually talked about this too, that we're not taking our morning coffee runs and having breakfast out as much as we used to. Um, making sure we take dogs for walks and stuff. So I think that it's taking the time that we never took the time for before. But you're also good about doing your daily routine things. Like you don't miss a workout. I don't know how you do that, but you never miss a workout. And a lot of the connections that you've been able to make have been, you know, positive. And so I think that's a good thing. Um you're you know, further out of your comfort zone and working on some other stuff, and so I think that's all good too. But um, it really did take me a good six to nine months before I could actually pull my head up and be like, oh, the world exists, instead of just like feeling like I was on vacation all the time. And I know tax season is busy, um, but at the same time, I have to say that Ooh, careful. Stan one's up. Um, it's not so busy that we can't actually do other things. And I think that's important. So we're not working seven days a week, 24 hours a day. Um, we're still, you know, the kids are going on and doing things like they've been going on field trips and stuff like that. And so we've been packing special lunges so they've got all the things they really need, and you know, going out and running errands and saying, Oh, you know, bummer, we need more scrub daddies, which means we have to go to this one place in Braga and it's the only place you can go, you know. So I think that um we've just been more purposeful. So I don't feel burned out even though we're working a lot and I'm working every day. Um, and that's good.
SPEAKER_00It feels like the mental head space is a little better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and um I have to say that realizing when I was getting into some of those same patterns of it's not just like I got through my to-do list, but it was like, oh, look at that. I did such a good job. Didn't I do a good job? And then every time he is reviewing something, the perfectionist student in me is like, I need to get that 100% A. I'm like, do you see any trends? Are there things I need to fix? I'm like hovering, like I'm like, you need to do more, like you need to do this, so I know if I did all of this right or not, because I don't want to get too far ahead. And so I think that I've also been kind of a pain in his butt. But I think it's going well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So in America, you know, we were both working all the time. And I guess for me, I think for me, in the summer of 2022, I actually looked at buying a coffee shop in Indianola because I thought that that would solve my burnout problems, would be to just kind of throw my hands, hands up in the air and walk away from all of it. And, you know, I started investigating, and that coffee shop, at the end of the day, I would have made about as much money from that as I make from from what I do now, which I'm not sure if that's an indictment of small-time accountants or small coffee shops, or if that's just how it is. But at any rate, I knew it wasn't going to solve all of our problems. Running a coffee shop, a drive-thru coffee shop, uh, not even a sit-down coffee shop where people go in and sit at t at tables. It's just, it was one where you you drive through. Um, that wasn't gonna solve my burnout problems. And you had gone to baking and pastry school and gotten your degree while still working for the college. I mean, we talked about you working at the bakery and and things, but we knew that that probably wasn't going to solve your burnout problems.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I don't think that when it came to the bakery, you know, I would have been working a lot of hours. I loved every moment of working at the bakery. I loved the people, I loved the whole part, but it really was financial. We couldn't find a way to make that work. And so I think that we have more flexibility. I can see myself, I I have a pretty I have a better vision of the kinds of things I want to do. Um, I still see myself owning a business, um, maybe a couple of them. So I can see myself doing something in online education and calling in some of those favors of people I know we need to do continuum education credits for licensure and say you want to earn money, possibly more money than what you're making now. Um but then I can also see myself, you know, like really feeding that social and artistic side of myself. I really am leaning towards like a kind of craft cafe and, you know, batting the idea around. And it would be easy to do in Braga and it would be very popular, and there are certain holes now that I see that we just really don't have. Um, and so that would be a great opportunity. So I think that there are options and opportunities, and I'm only now able to start thinking about what do I really want to do? You know, if I'm not this insert job persona, that's also been very different. Like I have expac friends, and I have no idea what their jobs are. They still have jobs, some of them. And there are others like I that don't, and I'm I have no idea what they did for a living. And instead, we're talking about things like books and we're talking about those the places they want to go and and being a different kind of person, I think that that's been fascinating, you know, and and I'm trying to kind of embrace that. That's that part of burnout that I think is really hard when your identity is so wrapped up in work and your loyalty or your participation and dedication to an institution. I think that that makes it difficult. So yeah, have you I don't know if you've even thought about what you want to do in addition to some of those things, but you've got some great projects, ideas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, when we talk about burnout, it's so hard to even put it into words because you could talk about burnout from the standpoint of, well, I need to take a week off or something. And I feel like our burnout was different than just take a week off. I feel like it was it's one of the reasons why I was the one of all people who pushed for us to to move somewhere. Um, we looked at Spain, we looked at Mexico, I've actually looked at many different countries in the world. I've been looking at other countries even now. I'm a surprise.
SPEAKER_01It's always an adventure.
SPEAKER_00Um so I knew that we needed a drastic change. And I mean it seems outside the box, but moving to another country was something we had talked about for 15 or 16 years at the time we did it. And it was just, well, let's do it now instead of having it be a retirement thing. And it was because I felt like we needed to like kick the ladder out from underneath us and be in a different place and a different mindset.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think that that definitely helped. You were right. I mean, like I I was so tired and stressed I could barely function. Um, and I'm a functioning human being now. I mean, that's fantastic. Um, uh, my pain, you know, I have fibromyalgia, my pain was constant. Um, now a flair is rare, you know, and that's that's also a great fantastic thing. Um, we're definitely healthier because the foods we eat are healthier and have fewer preservatives, and so that's great. Um, we're starting to have more of a community, but in a way that we can like, I don't know, like we're we're more engaged because we're, you know, you go through motions in life. I guess this is how it described the way we were burnt out. We were going through all the motions and we were going all these places, but it was like something else was driving the the body, and your mind was just obsessed or stuck with something else, and you were exhausted and just kind of pulling yourself through. I don't feel that way anymore. I feel like I'm actually in the driver's seat and I'm present and I can actually look up and see things and notice all of those little things. And I know that for some people, I could always let my guard down and do that with them, but that wasn't the case all of the time. And so um, now I'm kind of living in that space. And I think that's the difference. So a week off really would make a huge difference and give us like all the gumption and all of those kinds of things. And it's been a long time since I'd been at that point. I think the moment that we stopped, like we started cutting travel and conferences and all of those professional connections and you know, kind of the getting that 360 view and all of that kind of went away. That's where things really kind of fell apart for me as a professional. And and I know that there are reasons for all of those things, and it's you know, but at the same time, I think it makes a difference.
SPEAKER_00Well, you also had at the college, I mean, your entire department and people that you had grown up with, quite literally as a professional, suddenly were just cut. And I mean, and it's not just your college, it's like uh I know one of my clients was telling me that their former their former institution, on a certain date, everybody was going to get an email saying yes or no, whether you still had a job. And it's like, how cruel is that, and how how disrespectful of everybody, whether it's a professor or an office worker or the janitor. It's like that's just terrible. And you know, your college hires a consultant and pays them like the equivalent of the salary of two or three people, and that person's like, well, these people need cut, and then that's just like, okay, goodbye, you're gone. And suddenly tenured professors who'd been there for decades are just like, well, goodbye, get out.
SPEAKER_01I know, and I have to say, like, I am still working through my pain and disillusionment there, but I think that was a big that was a very it's a very difficult thing. It's still hard for me to think about and talk about. But I I definitely lost trust. I lost faith, um, rightfully so. And then it was also why why am I working this hard all of the time? Um, particularly when I'm being told one thing and then the complete opposite or other things happen. Um, and it's just you can see the lies. Um, and you you can see the the rationale on both sides. Um, but in capitalism, I just realized that I'm more of a small business, small town, you know, like if you're working for me, you should be working for me and know that you're doing a good job and and that, you know, like I want you to continue grow. And I think that environment really went away, and that made it a place where I could no longer really work. And yet I still adore and love my colleagues, and I miss a lot of them so much. But yeah, I didn't have anything to go back to either. And I think that if I'd had a home to go back to, things might have been a little bit different. Maybe a sabbatical could have helped, but this was a definite change that that I needed to make. I still don't know what's gonna be on the other side, you know, and that's hard to say, particularly as somebody who's like had plans and like, you know, like it's like I have to see the strategy and map it all out and all of those things. I think that's been really hard. Um but I'm learning, you know, and um, yeah, I mean you lose your you lose your family, and then you see other members of your family like that are scarred in such horrid ways, and they're still there, and you're like there's just not enough um ways to do that reconciliation for me. And so I think that that became really hard.
SPEAKER_00I think it was burnout that was driven by disillusionment. Yeah. Uh for both of us it was. I mean, different reasons. Very, you know, I'm I've been self-employed since 2011. Yeah. Um, so it's different. Um before that, I worked for a couple different businesses, and I got disillusioned with that as an employee. And it's, I think we're both really high achievers. Yeah. And when we see that the people around us are not, or there's things that we know could be done, and it sounds a little bit arrogant or whatever, but you know, you look at it, it's like, well, why don't we do it this way? And of course, there's a there are sometimes legitimate reasons why you don't do it that way, but it's like nobody seems to care. It's like shrug your shoulders and who cares? And then you get disillusioned, and then I became self-employed, and it was work massive amounts of hours just to try to break even and pay myself a little bit of money and pull out of subsistence farming, essentially. And I guess that that also ground my candle all the way down on my side.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think though, you know, in my situation, I could see ways to do things differently. We all could see ways to do things differently. And I was working with very talented people who were very dedicated to the institution and yet were not listened to, and the decisions that were made were highly questionable. And so I think that that makes it all so difficult. And you're right. I mean, you were growing a business and putting your nose down to the grindstone. There were times where you look up and you think, why is it worth it? But inevitably, I think that we're now at the point where you know we're in a good environment for work, and you know, it helps to I mean, we don't have Lady the Cow out there anymore. It's true, but I still get to see, you know, the church and listen to the church bells right there next to us, and you know, um, we still have our coffee area and go back to the neighborhood and say hi to people now and again. But um yeah, I think that we're able to make human connections, and a lot of those human connection things were things that I sacrificed in order to continue working, but also because I didn't know how to navigate some of those friendships anymore when things were so hard. And so I think that we're both coming up, realizing and knowing and sort of validating that people are more important than institutions. And those those relationships are just essential, and you know, we're have to force ourselves to make time for those things and because they're important to us, you know. I mean, we talked about having dinner parties and having friends over, and we were so excited to be able to do it, and then we never did. For six years we talked about having these particular friends over, and six years later it never happened, it never happened, and so like I think that you know, we have to realize that we have to make different choices, and this gives us the opportunity to actually learn from that and make those different choices. So um, I wouldn't go back. Um there are times that I still really miss I miss being a professor, I miss my colleagues, I miss teaching, I miss the creativity. Um but at the same time, I also have other elements and other interests and things that are helping. So it's not like a one and done kind of thing. I mean, you know, I think that it's getting better. I'm feeling much more zen. I feel more centered. I don't know if you all can tell this. I mean that I'm feeling much more centered. I don't feel as overwhelmed. I don't feel like it's also my job to make sure everybody is okay. I felt that for a very long time. And then when you can make, you can literally do nothing to make anything okay. It's really one of those things that's demoralizing. And I think that's where we were because we couldn't make it okay for other people that we loved and that we worked with and that were our colleagues, but then also I couldn't make it okay for myself either. And I think that we've we've worked through that in a real way. So yeah, I think the time and you know shaking things up as you say was probably a good thing. Um it would have taken me a lot longer to get here. Um, and I think that that's definitely true. So you know what does that mean? And will I go back to teaching? Yeah, maybe. Um, I, you know, put myself out there for online Spanish teaching, having my degrees evaluated here to see, you know, um if I can go ahead and it'd be easy for me to teach Spanish. There's lots of Spanish learning that happens. Um, but having my own business and all of those things, I think that's that's pretty easy for me to do here in in ways that I it would have been more difficult in the States. Um, but I actually now can like pull my head up after all of this and say these are the kinds of things that I want because these are the things that are important to me. Um and you know, like I can be there for myself, I can be there for you all, but I can be there for the kids, and I was not there for the kids before. So not in the ways that I wanted to be. I was definitely not as present. So worth it, yeah. Hard, definitely. Um still processing emotions, I think. But I don't feel fried, even though I'm working every day. Um and yeah, tax season will come and go. Um but at the same time kind of having fun with learning new things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's been good so far. And we're coming up on our one year anniversary, that'll be our next podcast. So stay tuned. Stay tuned. All right, we'll catch you again next time on As the Dinosons Turn.