Season 3, Episode 3: Burnout
Our journey with burnout continues to evolve. We still are not "cured," but we are in a better headspace now than we were before we moved.
Welcome to As the Dinoson's Turn, where we chronicle the adventures of the Dinoson family, a seemingly ordinary family from Iowa who decided, hey, you only live once. So let's move to Portugal. And now your hosts, Jason and Tracy Dynason.
SPEAKER_02All right, welcome to another episode of As the Dinason's Turn. We wanted to talk more about our burnout. So on the last episode, we touched on it, but we had to really set the stage and tell the story again, you know, from 2019 to now. Um and so burnout, though, was a big part of our lives and how disillusioned we were with our careers and just I don't know, the rat race too, and having so much stuff. And I think we're still battling with that, but the burnout with our careers, I think, is in a very different place now than it was when we moved here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I was completely disillusioned. And that disillusionment of, you know, going, you're like, I've given everything to this mission, to this institution, you know, I really want to make all of this work, I want it to be great. So many of us do that, um, particularly in academia, you because you believe in the mission and you love the students and you do love the institution and you want to see what's best for it. But at the same time, I realized in the 2018, 2019 academic year, that the institution didn't really care about me or what I did, or really any of us as an individual, um, is what I was left with feeling. And I don't think that that was a lot of other people's cases. Um, but when you'd work so hard with colleagues and had this magical moment and this great place and feeling, and you watch it all fall apart in multiple ways and from multiple different changes, um, I think that leads to a lot of sadness and not knowing what to do with that. And because I'm always going to be the problem solver and working to solve the problem, and this was a problem I couldn't solve. Um, and it was a problem I worked really hard to get past. And it wasn't until, gosh, even four or five months ago that I started dealing with feelings of everything from 2018 to 2019 to give you an idea of where everything moved. And then 2019, 2020, all of those things and how it all kind of converged in and of itself. It was not until literally four months ago that I started being able to realize that I was not just hurt, I was vehemently angry. And I was mad at the world. And I think that because you buy into something, you're mad at yourself, you're mad at everybody, and you're mourning for these things. And thank goodness for my former colleagues and having conversations with them and saying, like, we also can feel that same type of element together and have conversations, but also thank God for therapy, because that saved you all quite a bit as well. But really, it took a good year for me to even start thinking about what that might mean. And 18 months after leaving, to be like, okay, now I can really start dealing with all of this. And now I feel completely differently. Um, literally having conversations with a former colleague and a dear friend to say, I'm so mad. And having, you know, how have you processed this? What, what have you thought? And then saying, I don't even know what to do with my life now because I love teaching, but is it worth it? You know, and so having like even putting myself out there to see if I could teach was my big first step. And literally sitting in the atelier and I'm working, and a friend walks in and says, Hey, you know, I'm off to go to the institute and all these things. And I'm like, you know, I really miss teaching. I didn't think I would, but I really do. Um, and the didn't I didn't think I would was because I was so burned out, I didn't think I could ever do it again because it requires so much of yourself. You give so much of yourself to your students and to the creativity and all of those things. And I was like, you know, I wonder what it would take for me to even be able to do that here. And she's like, please let me get you a meeting. And within two minutes of that meeting, all of a sudden I was hired and I was teaching five days a week and I'm working, I'm teaching 10 and a half hours a week. Um, and you get paid for your teaching hours just like you would in any other country or any of those things. Um, and it's not a lot of money, but it is enough money that I'm like, I feel like I'm contributing to something. I'm gonna buy myself a dishwasher. Like it's like things like that. It contributes to helping me do other things too. And it's enough that it feeds my soul, but it's not so overwhelming that I can't do other things too. And I think that that's a great thing. So will I do it full time ever again? Not if you ask me today. Um who knows, in another five years where I'll be. But you know, right now, yeah, it gives me opportunity to do other things. And I found a passion for my art. And I'm now at a point where I'm getting ready for spring markets, and my plan is to start selling art, and I'm excited for that. Um, and I didn't know this thing that I always wanted to explore in ceramics and pottery, and I never gave myself permission to do. I was going to take that ceramics class when we offered it at the institution, and I was ready to do it. And then, you know, with kids and all of the responsibilities, for one reason or another, I didn't do it, or I could always talk myself out of it, or you know, I'm gonna do this at the art center. I talked about it for years, and then actually taking the leap here and then doing that whole July intensive wheel, learning how to throw on a wheel class and all of that kind. I mean, it's been soul cleansing in a lot of ways. And I can always tell when I've got something I have to deal with. Because if you try and throw pottery on a wheel and you're not completely centered and focused, you can't throw. It won't center. No matter even so, you can't be in denial. You have you have to you have to deal with it. And so that's been fantastic. And teaching um has kind of given me part of my happiness and fulfillment and my smile back in real fun ways and given me some more socialization, which has been fun. So I'm at a place now where I'm not as I'm I'm not even close to burned out like I was before. Like I can keep doing things. Like it was literally the point that I was going to bed right when I got home and I'd get up in the morning and go to work again. Like I never did anything else. I always thought I would do other things, but I never did. And now I am meeting friends and I'm going and doing things, and we're going to go see Wicked together and going shopping or, you know, going out for drinks and you know, meeting at 6:30 and not leaving the bar until midnight because we're having fun. And, you know, I'm just telling you, like sangria and really good french fries at midnight, or it just kind of hits well. So all of those things have been great and a blessing. It's not been easy to get there. I feel much more creative and fulfilled. Um, and I've loved helping you think about what things you want to do and supporting you in that. So that's my piece of that. So, what about you? Because I had no idea you wanted to set things on fire.
SPEAKER_02No, I didn't really want to.
SPEAKER_01You fantasized about it. Let's be honest. You were ready to just blow that.
SPEAKER_02That was a metaphor, just like the Juan Valdez with the cow.
SPEAKER_01I'm just imagining it.
SPEAKER_02I wasn't going to set anyone or anything on fire. It was more a metaphor.
SPEAKER_01He wanted a die hard moment. All right. So I didn't know that you were, it was this bad for you. So I was so bad.
SPEAKER_02And after we moved here, I I know several times on this podcast and other people, I was like, oh, my burnout is over or whatever, but it really wasn't. But I found for whatever reason the holiday season this year, you know, usually for probably six or seven years, when like December 23rd would come around, I'd start to feel this feeling of like massive relief. Like people will leave me alone. I don't have to deal with clients, I don't have to deal with anything. And I can just go into hiding.
SPEAKER_01Which is not because you don't like your clients, it's just because you couldn't deal with day to day.
SPEAKER_02It's just the day to day that I couldn't deal with it anymore. And then during the holidays, feeling this like a feeling of dread almost with each like passing day and each second moves us closer to the first workday in January, and then people are gonna want things again, and then it'll be tax season, and here we go again. And this was the first year that I didn't feel that way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I mean, this is I I start teaching again tomorrow, you know. So we're filming this ahead of when you'll see it. And, you know, there was a time where I was like, oh my God, it's all gonna start again. And I'm like, I can hardly wait to see these kids and see what was going on. And so I feel it. Is this the first time in a long time I used to wake up in the morning energized and ready to go? I was so ready to go on because I loved what I was doing and I loved where I was. I remember that feeling and didn't have that for so long. And so I get it. I have that feeling again. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I actually feel okay about going back to work. And I mean, I even worked during the break some, and you did, and that was okay. It's like it wasn't bothersome like it was for so many years, because this was even before the medical incident in 2019. It was growing, probably starting in 2018 or so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. For me, I could see that. I mean, tax season, and you know, I used to joke, oh, I'm entering my single parent season, you know, when I was working, and that was the case, it felt like in a lot of things, because you had so many things to get done. And I feel like we're both tackling this so much better in a healthier way that um I think I'm a lot calmer about things now. Yes, me too. My gut is no longer to be like like wanting to cry or frustrated now. I'm just like hysterical on the floor laughing, which probably people find amazing. But I think that yeah, I absolutely things are calmer.
SPEAKER_02I remember we were in our new construction house at tax season. It must have been 2021 before it sold, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Or maybe 2020, even. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, whatever. We were in the new house. Okay, and I remember Tyler, it was tax season. Okay, and Tyler came out of the bathroom to say there was no soap in the soap dispenser, and I told him, because I was in the middle of a tax return. I said, Well, then find another goddamn soap dispenser.
SPEAKER_01That is not my husband, and so I'm sorry, but he doesn't talk to anybody that way. Oh, poor Tigger.
SPEAKER_02I know. Well, I felt horrible after that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I mean, obviously, I said just a little bit ago that the burnout started in 2018, but I think that it came to a head, probably 2020, 2021. And just those moments, there also was a moment during that same tax season where I don't know, it was like nine o'clock on a Sunday night, and I just had to stop and I literally I didn't cry, but I put my head in like my head in my hands, and I was just like, What are we doing?
SPEAKER_01I remember this, I remember that very well. I remember you just being like, that's it. I'm I'm done. I'm done. I'm never doing this again. I'm done. And I would be like, Okay, let's think about this, just take a break. This is what is, you know, because that's what you're supposed to do as a spouse. Be like, don't go ahead and send an email to everybody. Let's take a breather. But yeah, I mean, I think that we are both much more present and approachable and much more of who we are at our core now than we were before we moved because of all of that burnout and stress that we were dealing with. And you're doing the same job, you know. So the environment shift and me being a piece of it, instead of being like, I can help you if you need help, or you know, instead of you having to train a new intern every year because that makes it so much better, on top of everything else, even though you're doing great service. Um, I think that that has made a big difference. But you've got your creative spark back. He doesn't share this, but he's a dreamer and he's an entrepreneur. And so he has got ideas and big plans and things in the works that I think are amazing and are going to make his life even more fulfilling on top of you know, taxis and and all these other pieces. You know, you know your stuff and you're doing a great job with all of this, but you know, he's growing all kinds of things, so Lord knows what will happen. Um, I have learned though, through my whole burnout process that while I love you, I don't want to become a tax professional. We had thought about that. That was what that was going to be, and I thought, yes, that's the next thing. And I realized going through my own therapy and things with that, I was trying to solve another problem that was not going to be fixed, but that I can still help and support you, even though I'm not got letters for that behind my name. I have enough letters behind my name at the moment, anyhow. Um so there's that. But I would also say that in having conversations with you, you're dreaming and thinking outside the box again. And it's I'm doing the same things. You know, this is like, okay, well, I enjoy teaching, but what do I want to do on top of that? You know, I would love to have like a dream of like a co-working space or an atelier or a place where I can do all kinds of things, and that I think will come to fruition, maybe definitely not over the next year or two. I've got a lot to learn, um, but not this year. I'd say when we figure out where we're really going to be, um, after Jackson finishes high school and we know we've committed to being this place until then, and then Tyler will be moving to high school and we can move wherever Jackson feels like will be best for him based on his tract. Um, so he can live with us and take a train to college. Or if he decides he wants to go to another country, then great for him. Then we can decide wherever we want to go, you know. So we'll see. But geez. You haven't talked about your whole burnout process though. When did you start seeing differences? Because tax season here, when we first got here, we was in the middle of tax season. But because you could work outside and it was pretty and you had the view and you could go and visit your cow. It literally was a cow. Um, that went really well. But then you started feeling it again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Because really what it had become by earlier in 2024, I would say, is just transplanting a job from the US to Portugal.
SPEAKER_01True.
SPEAKER_02And a lot of the stresses were still there, and the the hours and such were still there, and not knowing why you were doing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like why was why are we doing this?
SPEAKER_01Well, and we've been able to have more conversations of, you know, making sure that when you're doing something, you're paid what you're worth. Um, and what that means, and people will pay it or they won't pay it. And if that means that, you know, that's how you show value to a professional who shows service. And that is a Portuguese philosophy. Yeah. That is not a capitalist philosophy, that is a Portuguese philosophy. Like my expertise is worth this amount of money, and in order to use me, you are going to have to pay this. And people go, but they pay it.
SPEAKER_02If you're going to get your Portuguese tax return prepared, it's 750 or more.
SPEAKER_01I think ours was a thousand. And quite frankly, to have the meeting, to have a meeting, to even talk about the possibility was 300 euro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's completely different. And that was a 15-minute, 15-minute at most 20-minute conversation. And so I think that that also is a completely different mindset.
SPEAKER_02And we see things on the expat forums where people will grumble about how you know they wanted to talk to a Portuguese accountant, but they want to charge for the meeting. That's what I'm saying. And American accountants don't do that. And that's true, but we should. Well, we also shouldn't be charging $150 or $200 to slap together your tax return. It should be $400 or $500.
SPEAKER_01Because the tax law has changed. If it was just $100 or $150, AI can do that now. It's when all of those things completely change. And it can't be done by TurboTax and it can't be done by the free IRS online or the phone system that we used to. This is how old I am. That doesn't exist in the system. Oh my god. Well, you never know. I don't think it does. Yeah, you never know. But I think that those free systems, if it can't be done with something like that, then you need to pay a professional. And a professional's expertise is really important. So, and you do a lot of teaching online, a lot of continuing education. And now we're also the no, we're not doing this just because we're doing this because it's a business and because your expertise, you are sought after. Like we could book every single day. You could be presenting two, three times a day on your calendar. And if somebody starts canceling consistently, we've had the conversation now saying, no, we're not, we're not actually going to be working with you in the future. Um, or you're gonna have to pay a cancellation fee of you know 50 euro or $50 an hour. If it was a two-hour webinar, you owe us $100 for cancellation. It's you're gonna have to do an investment because that's the reality of what you do and and how things have shifted even in your own profession. So I think that it's not just the place, it's also you accepting that things have changed in your profession and things have changed with who you are and willing to put more boundaries around things. I see that a lot. I've like, nope, I need to get this under control. These are my boundaries. This is what I'm willing to do and what I'm not willing to do, which neither one of us are good at because we're perfectionist people pleasers and wanted to do all those things, right? Overachievers. And overachievers, you have to achieve more than. Right. Well, now we're at the I'm worth more than. That's right. But it's a good transition to be I'm worth more than rather than I do more than anyone. And it's because I see my own self-worth for the first time. Yeah, it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_02We've been talking for over an hour now on our recordings today. So we probably better wrap this one up. But it seems like we've got an unending well of topics that we can talk about uh whenever we get back to recording again. But I'm sure we'll revisit burnout because it seems like there's a lot more we could both say on this and what our journey has been just here in Portugal and how it's evolved over time.
SPEAKER_01So gosh, and the growth in our children and persistence and resilience they have shown. Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, school and how kids adjust and all that. Lots of stuff to talk about.
SPEAKER_01So it's good. Very good.
SPEAKER_02Uh, we will be here. So catch us again next time on another episode of As the Dinosons Turn.
SPEAKER_00You've been listening to As the Dinosons Turn, a podcast presented by Dinoson Media Ventures. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and catch us again next time for another episode.